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rvonsonsnadtz · **on:** January 10, 2013, 03:38:29 PM

Mercenaries; Do you want to be rich and fearsome?

I have a map on the go, which is a kind of point-hunting short rpg/arcade. The goal is simply to gain the most amount of overall points, which are given by almost everything; from buffing to healing to dealing damage and killing to succeed with certain objectives.

To begin with, you will choose your personal hero. And this hero-system is a big bit different from the normal wc3-style. Instead of gaining attributes per level (strength, agi, int, spellpower), the attributes you have will affect your health and stuff depending on your level and attributes. Also, a bit different combat-system is also active, where the agility is no longer affecting the attack-speed, but instead you use it with a random-element to beat a number based on the enemy-hero agility (or enemy units level vs. your level and agility) to hit the enemy. (In other words, every heroes have a hit-rating and a dodge-rating directly affected by your agility, instead of geting a higher attack-speed)

The story of the map: You are a rookie mercenary, only loyal to the gold and the action. And this is the story when you tried to become the most famous and feared hire-sword in the whole atlantic. You set out in the wilderness with nothing more than your armor and weapons, to achive an esteemed, but also redoubtable, reputation.

Will you succeed?

Gameplay

Genre: Hmm... Good question. Part adventure, part something close to arcade (a lot of different genres are included due to the very gameplay of the map with it's events). The best way should be to try it, once it's done (:

Hero

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, if anyone have ideas for events, I would be very thankful if you posted it here, as I haven't succeeded at figuring out that many (have a Team-Survival, Quick DotA/AoS-style, Team Death-match, Free For All, and perhaps as the last event, the player with the highest score shall in some way have a challenge with hem against the others) (:
(The events should have a max-time of about 15-25min)

moyack · **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2013, 08:40:23 AM

Hmm... interesting idea, I'd suggest to improve the format of the first post to bring more attention. A big bold title, sections, we offer a rich and a complete set of tools to make look your post very attractive.

About the model, I can help, just confirm what tilesets are you going to use.

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2013, 09:56:57 PM

Well, the texture needs to work at very many different environments, caves, crypts, high peaks (although I haven't really succeeded making it look very high..) volcanos, forests and castles, so I belive that Lordareon Dirt (I know many people say it is the ugliest tileset, and I am DEFINETELY not a map-designer, but ye, Lordareon Winter is the main-tileset and it's dirt is probably the only thing that could work at all those spaces (unless you have a better idea ^^')

EDIT: I changed the envirnonment, I decided to go for a cold and unforgiving envirnment, and Lordareon Winter did become my "base"-choice (although not that many base-tiles are left)

s[ub]lime · **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2013, 12:40:06 AM

Im confused, what genre is this map in? I like the gameplay concept though.

Also, as boss said, use our BBCodes! We have tons of them to make your thread prettier.

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2013, 08:03:16 AM

I *hope* this explained more and made it more attractive ^^

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2013, 08:54:32 AM

Ohh, and Moyack, if you could make a model, could you create a 5sec long birth-animation where it just rises (or the water rises) slowly. That would be fantastic ^^
And perhaps something spectacular at the death-animation? (like 5 of the Naga-building death/explosion or something at the same time at different places? xD ) This isn't required so to speak, but it would be awesome ^^

moyack · **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2013, 09:24:02 AM

Update: WIP....

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2013, 06:40:10 PM

Hmmm, do you think I could make a 1000-units-diameter lake with that model? If so, very nice work and I am utterly thankful!

SonofJay · **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2013, 05:21:16 AM

I bet you can, but most likely you'll need a uber hq texture so it won't look stretchy.

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2013, 04:01:29 PM

Hmmm, should I add some heroes with abilities to this thread, and perhaps some captains?

moyack · **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2013, 10:18:34 PM

Quote from: rvonsonsnadtz on February 03, 2013, 04:01:29 PM

Hmmm, should I add some heroes with abilities to this thread, and perhaps some captains?

That's a good start actually

it will give us a point to set a reference and bring a more accurate help.

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2013, 01:26:49 PM

Alright, I will! (:
Have just been a bit busy with other things and haven't coded for a while, but might start again soon! (:
Could start with one hero and one captain, and just let it continue from that;

Arcane Scholar Caster:
A versatile spellcaster with a great range of spells suited for all situations.
-Pros- Versatile, good defence against arcane damage
-Cons- No specialization, weak against piercing attack

Ranged, Arcane Attack.
Base Attack: 2d4 + 15
Damage Modifier: Intelligence
Cooldown: 2.00
Range: 500
Agi: -1 Str: -2 Int: +3 SpP: +3 (These are modifier from the base-value, which is 16. The Arcane Scholar has f. ex. 15agi and 18SpP, SpP stands for SpellPower)

Active Abilites:
Magic Missile - Shoots out a number of missiles against one target. The amount of missiles is dependent on hero-level
Mage Armor - Grants some armor and dodge-rating
Fire Ball - Sends out a ball of fire dealing damage. The damage is based on hero-level and SpP
Stone Skin - Reduces all damage to a minimum. Lasts some time or until the stoneskin has absorbed to much damage based on spellpower and hero-level
(E)Empower Spell - Increases the effect and manacost of the next spell. Will not be used if you're not having enough mana.
(EU)Mass Fowl - Slows the enemies in the target area and reduces their dodge-rating.
Passive Abilities:
(E)Greater Spell Penetration - Helps beating spellarmor.
(E)Improved Empower Spell - Makes the Empower Spell more effective
(E)Better Stats* - Grants +1 to all 4 stats
(E)Greater Intelligence - Grants +3 to intelligence
(B)Spell Penetration - As Greater Spellpenetration
(E stands for Epic spells/abilities, these only have one level as they are learnet by picking the epic feat-skill. EU is the last epic ability. B stands for Base-ability and are passive, minor abilites given to heroes at level one.
*Better stats is a epic skill every hero have according to my idea for the moment)

/------------------------------------------------
A captain

FlameWielder (no name yet)
Fire, ranged attack

Skill: Firestrike
Deals heavy damage upon one target on cast.
(The captains could have a casting skill, a passive skill or a skill activated by certain conditions, like one of your units kills another unit)

s[ub]lime · **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2013, 01:17:41 AM

I'll give a little feedback on the hero:
1. Basing on Hero Level is bad. Some may lag behind due to constantly being killed/slow farming and it would just make their game worse. It would be better if you based it on Spellpower instead. When using a stat for basis, its best to only use Attributes(STR, INT, AGI), Spellpower, Attack Damage, Health, Mana and other things that are easily modified by the hero himself, friend and foes. This allows enemies to lower their stats and make their abilities less effective.
2. For Magic Missile, I think it would be better if it were a skill shot/point target, giving it more skill to execute and just firing a single missile. Multiple ones shooting at a unit seems overpowered, but multiple ones shooting at a point seems reasonable.
3. For Mage Armor, its good to prevent hits from those physical attackers, which are usually the worst enemies of mage-typed units.
4. Stone Skin would benefit more if it gave Damage Absorption + Secondary Effect, such as bonus HP Regeneration, HP, etc. Instead of basing it from two stats, base it on one, such as STR, HP, or something else.
5. Empower Spell - It should be the next spell casted instead, not all spells for a certain time. Its too powerful that way. Plus its called Empower Spell, not Empower Spells.
6. Mass Fowl - I've always tried to go away from those roll/luck based skills, such as percentages. Try to just do something else, like make it raining sheeps, slowing all units in the area, giving him a supportive function.
7. Stat bonuses would be better if done LoL style, where you place Runes and modify your Masteries before the game starts to make your character more efficient at a certain role, not just stick to one. It adds more versatility, replay ability, and makes the heroes very flexible, allowing players to play any role they want.

For the captain:
1. As I said earlier, remove luck-based skills and utilize abilities that actually require skill. Firestrike could be better if it were activated on the next auto attack after activation.

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2013, 09:53:41 AM

Hmmm, well, I have played alot of Neverwinter Nights (especially 2) and Baldur's gate, both based on the luck and roll-based Dungeons And Dragons ruleset, so I might have been a bit influented by that, but I must agree that you are probably right with lessening the chance and roll-thing and focus more on skillbased. I shall rewrite the skills and see what I could make of it.
However, My whole idea about the level-based thing is very fabricated into this idea and map, and I think I will find a way to balance it anyway, so I think it will stay. (First to say is that I am not planning on letting the attributes automatically rise each level, instead the attributes affects more for every level you got, with other words, a +1stat thing will be usefully the whole game through. On the other hand, I do want to interprent a small dialog after each event, letting every player increase one stat of their own choice. )
But everything you said is definetely under consideration, and I will do what I can to not make level-increament to large nor to small neither.
However, as you have seen, I got a hit-and-dodge rating in this game, something all characters have. This makes high-agility targets a bit harder to hit (and we are again at this chance-and-roll-thing) but if I remove as much of the chance-stuff as possible from the spells, then perhaps this isn't a too bad thing? (Attack-based heroes often have some passive hit-rating-boosters, so that even agility-freaks should be hit quite some times)

As an extra touch; I am planning on creating items with Level-Modifier stats, which won't change your health/mana etc. but making the spells treating the caster as a level or two higher. This is probably, however, most effective for certain casters.

EDIT: Have changed some stuff, but as I said, I will try to balance the level-based stuff instead of removing them completely.
About the magic missiles with the target/point stuff; it functions more like a spell-block-breaker than a heavy-damage spell. And I got some spells that more attacks an area than a target location with a bunch of missiles, so to not make it the same, I thought I could create it more like this.

About Stone Skin- Hmm, I will take it into reconsideration, but it already will benefit alot (the damage-absorbation is planned to be 80/85/90% depending on the level of the ability, so I think it is already quite usefull) And about the stat-base, well as said, you won't gain stats by levels, so your stats won't extremely different from the beginning to the end (items will do quite some stuff though) so level and spellpower is my idea. Another way could be like it costs 50%of the current mana and could absorb up to the double of what it took.

Mass Fowl: Hmmm, not a bad idea, perhaps lowering agi and str a bit too?

About point7: Haven't barely played any LoL, but I *think* I get your point. Some ideas about what the runes could do would be very appreciated. Thought that perhaps one should be given the choice of which runes to use before each event.

Thanks anyway! Very appreciated! (:

s[ub]lime · **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2013, 06:38:56 AM

Interesting concept there on not increasing attributes per level. I like it, especially that items part

Just dont make it limited to casters, since the higher level, the more experienced a character is, so you COULD integrate an experience stat which could influence dodge rates, attack damage, spell power, etc. per level or depending on how long since your last hit/fight.
Another influencing stat similar to Spellpower should be Attack Damage for those physical damage dealers or those physical based hero. You might even try implementing Armor as an influencing stat in spells.

On dodge chance, it is good, but just dont overuse it. Make some spells still be able to dodge by just walking away from it in the exact time, promoting positioning.

Magic Missile - I see. I think it could benefit if the damage was lesser per missile, making it less of a threat and more of that spell-block breaker.

Stone Skin - My bad, I wasn't aware of the no stat per level concept that time. From what I know, damage absorption basically just gives you a temporary maximum health increase to soak those damage, not lessen it. But still, it would be interesting to see another way for absorbing damage

Mass Fowl - AGI should be fine since it influences dodge rates, etc.

In Point 7, what I meant is that before a match begins in LoL, players would get to pick a specific combination of Runes and Mastery (I suggest you rename it for the sake of originality) which influence his/her stats, such as Attack Damage, Spell power, etc.

Also, I suggest you rename STR, AGI and INT to something else. I was thinking STR - Physical Power (Influences Armor, Health/Health Regen, Attack Damage, Critical Power[how much % bonus] etc.), AGI - Base Speed (Influences Dodge Rate, Movement/Attack Speed, Spell cast/channel times[?], Critical Chance[?[ etc.) and INT - Magical Power (Influences Magical Armor, Mana/Mana Regen, Spellpower, Spell Critical Chance and Spell Critical Power etc.). Spell Critical Power may seem a bit overpowered and very luck-based but its interesting to see as long as its executed properly.

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2013, 09:22:15 AM

Well, basically, I could add how many stats I want, so perhaps I should improve it a bit more (maybe not even have a mana-increasing stat at all, instead letting the mana grow more induvidually with the character + certain items ofcourse)
About the spellpower-thing; My idea is a bit that every character will ALWAYS have usefullness of all attributes, even if a fighter doesnt' benefit from spellpower as much as a mage, it still gives some effects.

About the runes, well, I have been thinking a bit. Either you should choose 1-2 runes before every event (to a max), letting you build it up succesfully before every event, or you simply choose the runes for the event, and let them reset afterwards or something ^^

And perhaps I should keep the level-modifier-thing usefull for most, but since it won't make any difference for the stats themself, a warrior might prefer things that increases his/her attack-damage and health and so on. (:

s[ub]lime · **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2013, 07:38:01 AM

Well if your runes are a collection of stats, then 2 per instance would do, other than that, it should be a lot more. Around 10 - 20 runes per character, increasing just a single stat.

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2013, 09:54:02 AM

I was thinking; people that haven't any experience with the map and the runes might find it rather difficult to apply 10-20runes optimized for their playing-style and character, so as I was meaning to say; either choose the runes before every event (about 10-15 runes perhaps) or choose a few at the begining of each event and succesfully build up (for a more difficult way, since you have to build the hero a bit more versatile to be good at all things)

s[ub]lime · **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2013, 05:01:48 AM

They could also choose none at all or have you provide preset runes per character.
Either way, any of those solutions would fit well and these are just the tiny features of the game.

Speaking of features, what other cool stuff have you implemented? Any visuals/pictures of the game yet?

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2013, 01:00:06 PM

No, sry, not yet. I have been focusing on the coding and especially the time-oriented stuff. Me and Moyack have been doing some discussing about timers.
But I could load up stuff as fast as I have anything to show! (: (One thing though; I haven't succeded at all when it comes to creating models, so don't expect anything made by me in that way, however, I *might* use some of them uploaded here, if the maker permitts it ^^ )

s[ub]lime · **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2013, 01:30:30 AM

You dont need their permission, just place them on the credits list.

I hate to say this but - this site is not the best one for resources. Wc3c, XGM or Hive would be better. Just make sure to give credits.

moyack · **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2013, 08:44:10 AM

Quote from: rvonsonsnadtz on February 21, 2013, 01:00:06 PM

But I could load up stuff as fast as I have anything to show! (: (One thing though; I haven't succeded at all when it comes to creating models, so don't expect anything made by me in that way, however, I *might* use some of them uploaded here, if the maker permitts it ^^ )

Just give credits for the models you use in your map. that's the reason we have resources

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2013, 11:34:57 AM

I have actually done some terraining, should I upload some print-screens? (not much to show in-game yet as I said..)

moyack · **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2013, 06:06:08 AM

Quote from: rvonsonsnadtz on February 22, 2013, 11:34:57 AM

I have actually done some terraining, should I upload some print-screens? (not much to show in-game yet as I said..)

Ohh yeahhh, we need to see your baby

rvonsonsnadtz · **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2013, 01:42:01 PM

Ok, here it is! (:
(Just one thing, I did some, or rather most, of the terrain-differences a bit to large, is there a tool in wc3 that would just make all terrain-differences a bit smaller, or do I need to do this by hand?)

There are some more pics, but I figured this is enough for now? (Must keep some of the curiosity up (; ) xD

EDIT: Moyack; I don't know if you have worked with the hill-thing for me, if you have, then thx, but if you are not finnished, then don't worry, I might change the spell and use the idea for another one later on (that doesn't need the lake-thing). But I really appreciated that you wanted to help, but it might be a better effect if I made something else ^^'

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